I can't say I was even close to being excited about this upcoming election. I haven't jumped on the Obama train or the McCain train until now. Last night I watched Sarah Palin speak at the RNC and I was so impressed. I loved her confidence, toughness and above all I loved hearing her talk about her family. I loved watching her family come up on stage with her and see her holding her baby in her arms. I love that she was a hockey/PTA mom turned city council woman turned mayor turned govenor. I think it is awesome! She was inspiring to watch and I finally feel like I can get into this election.
I do have one concern that I keep trying to shove aside but it keeps bothering me. Can Sarah Palin be Vice President of the USA and still be an involved, present mother to her kids? She has five children which include a newborn with Down Syndrome and a pregnant teenager. They are going to really need her. Can she do it? How does the vice presidency work? What will her daily itinerary be? Her husband will have to step up to be the primary caregiver. What do you guys think?
I've always been torn on this issue. Some women have to work and some women want to work. I think it is so important to stay home with your kids if you can. On the other hand what would the world be like if all teachers, doctors, lawyers, city council etc.... were men. I love when I take Emma to the eye doctor and Dr. Sharon Richens is there to answer all of Emma's questions about her eye. Emma leaves wanting to be an eye doctor. I love it! I want my daughters to be well educated and strong. I would love for them to be become doctors,nurses,teachers; whatever they want to be. I love that Sarah Palin is a mother with a mission. She is strong, inspiring and ready to take on the world. Maybe I just have an issue with the timing. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this!!! And I will be voting for Sarah Palin in November.
38 comments:
Author Jonah Goldberg said,"She was put on this earth to do two things: kill caribou and kick butt. She's all out of caribou".
Yes, Sarah will kick butt. I love her. I love strong women. I am a strong woman in my own home and that is what I am capable of. But Sarah is stronger and very much capable of being a good mother as well as a great American leader. As Obama would say, YES SHE CAN!
What makes her qualified to be President of the United States? There is a good chance, considering McCain's age, that she could be. Everything I've heard, good mother, PTA mom, Hockey mom, all great stuff, but what about qualifications to be President and even Vice-president.
As for whether or not she should be Vice-President and have children in the home...well I think that's up to her to decide not us. I can't help feeling like she's putting her career first though. My kids would be #1 before chasing such an enormous office. But that's just me.
McCain sure did choose the right person for getting all of his conservatives on board. But I'd say it throws his whole argument about Obama's lack of experience waaaay off. He criticizes Obama for it, then chooses someone with even less credentials, whom he only met once before. It reeks of politicking. Not that Obama's choice doesn't a little. Old, white guy. But most of them are old white guys and he did need to choose someone to compliment him, and make up for his limitations in foreign policy.
I liked her too. The experience thing doesn't bother me. She isn't running for President, she is Vice-President. McCain has the experience. As far as raising her family...it isn't the choice I would make for my family, but I do feel like it is her decision to make. She would be setting a different kind of example to her children, one that I could never do by staying home with the kids.
Good point Holly!
I think it is questionable if Obama even has more experience than her and Obama is running for President! A lot of women will vote for her. Independent and some democrat women were impressed with her last night according to CNN this morning. This was a GREAT pick for McCain!
I love that she has been a real mom (pta, hockey, etc.)and real person because she can relate to my life. But she worked her way up to the amazing position of governor. Which one of us can say we did that or can even dream of it? Most of us would have a hard time being a mom and V.P. But somebody has to do it. I have hope in her. She is setting a great example to her children by serving this country. It won't be easy but it will be worth it.
Well Im right there with you Jackie! I loved her speech and fell in Love with her adorable family also. I see what you mean about her being VP and also being a mom, Im sure there will be many moments of her childrens lifes that she will miss, but I believe that she has a calling in her life! And as a working mother myself (part time), it's encouraging to know that I am helping my families survival by contributing to our income! Don't get me wrong, If we could affored it, I would LOVE to stay home but I would probably spend too much $!!! LOL. Woman can do A LOT, we can multitask, much better than Men I think, and her family must work well together! She seems to be a STRONG woman with a mission and I admire that in her!
So nobody wants to answer my question? And did you all even know who she was a week ago? Now after one speech you're convinced she could be our next Vice or President?
My question was, what qualifies her to be President or Vice-President? And Jackie, I didn't understand what you were saying about Obama.
My point was that McCain has used Obama's lack of experience as a reason Obama is not qualified to be President. Then he chooses a person with even LESS experience than Obama. So his argument is null.
I thought I did answer your question Deann. Obama doesn't have a lot of experience and he is running for PRESIDENT. Sarah Palin is running for VP. Sarah Palin has been very effective in Alaska. She has actually made progress and changes in that state. What has Obama done as a Senator? He has written two books. One of which he should rename,"The Audacity to think I should be President of The United States of America when I have just barely quit going to a racist,hateful,and anti-american church." If you ask me he should have been "clinging" to a different religion. I think Sarah Palin is qualified and has experience but more importantly I think her ideas and goals for the country make sense. That may be why McCain chose her. Again I reiterate she is not running for the presidency....yet.
I agree with you Erica!
The Vice-President is suppose to be every bit as qualified and ready to step in as President. So you still have not answered my question in specifics no. If McCain thinks experience is so important he should have chosen someone who has it. What are her positions?
Obama has enough experience. I already wrote them all down in response to Erica's question on my post.
Again, one week ago you did not know who she was. McCain had only met her once when he chose her.
Why are you attacking books you've never read?
You shouldn't attack Obama based on second hand information. It's almost always incorrect. Why not just play up McCain instead of attacking Obama? I ask why people like McCain and their response is always why they hate Obama, instead. I would like to talk to just ONE Republican who can give me honest answers, based on first hand information. You've quoted the "clinging to guns" because you heard Palin talk about it. And you've criticized Obama because of his church based on you tube videos and probably Glenn Beck or someone like him. I would like to hear arguments based on real issues and not rhetorical attacks that are not grounded in truth.
I am blog stalking my sister Brittney's friends and I love that you love Sarah Palin. I think that the best thing a woman can do is follow her dreams and use that as an example for her children. Had she refused this opportunity due to her daughter's pregnancy, her daughter would have felt guilt for the rest of her life. I feel she is doing her daughter a favor.
Dee, no offense, but you sound a lot like people who have a strong opinion, but no information. What is sad is that everyone is comparing the VP nomination to the inexperienced guy running for president. His community organizing had to do with a group called ACORN which is also in trouble for registering dead people and illegals to vote. He never has passed any sweeping legislation and sure thinks he is something great. WHen asked about the situation in Georgia, he initially replied that Georgia is just as much to blame. He must have realized he sounded stupid, becuase he changed his statement 3 days later. Gerorgia was invaded by Russia for oil and for becoming a democratic nation. Russia threatened to restrict Europes energy. THen he said Russia should go to the UN security counsel . What? There are 5 countries with veto power, Russia is one. It is like asking your kid to punish themselves. Not gonna happen. It was a huge joke in our office about his"foreign policy experience" He didn't even know that nad none of his "advisors" told him? He is full of hot air and if I missed as much work as he has I wouldn't have a job to go to.
I would vote Palin as President if I could. She has 130 days less expereince than him in total public service adn by the time she is sworn in she will have 20 days more than he has. Don't get me started on politics. I can go on forever with facts, not feelings. ANd I am NOT a Republican I am a registered Independent. But I am definitely not an emotionally influenced nut case either! Good luck with your superstar though...he's super duper cool! Some of us rednecks actually know how to read...go figure!
But okay we can end the discussion. I think I'm waaaay too intense. I'm coming across argumentative when I don't mean to be. I just really do want answers and I feel like I'm not getting them. It's just frustrating. I'll leave your blog alone now!
Heidi
I know I have passion and hard questions for people but I don't make direct insults and call names. I'm not sure I can even respond to hatefulness like that. And I will check all your "facts". Those are many accusations, insults, and ASSUMPTIONS. You have no idea how I feel, or why I FEEL it OR what I know. I am so very sorry to have crossed paths with the likes of you.
After reading everyones comments I feel that a lot of these opinions are based on emotion instead of fact. Sure Sarah Palin gave a strong, confidant speech however I have to agree with Deann on the fact that she doesn't seem to have much experience to be put in a position to possibly run the USA. I would only assume that if you are ready to take on the vice Presidency you should be ready to take stand as the President as well. Yeah she seems like a very strong woman who has a wonderful family and is setting a great example to women who are striving to be "something" in this world, but are the qualifications that she has enough?
By the way, I am not generally into politics, but it seems that I can't stay away from it anymore... it's everywhere! So I just want to clarify that I don't know a lot about politics, but from the little that I have watched a read and seen on tv, these are my thoughts. :)
Hi, I'm a friend of Deann's. This got heated fast didn't it?
I'll admit it, I like Palin, why I don't know. I haven't researched her, but I do like her. I think a lot of Republicans were unhappy with McCain as our candidate and were just hoping he would pick a VP that would somehow salvage it. So she gave a good speech and we are excited! At least now maybe some of us Republicans will tune in again.
Can't we all just get along?!!!!!!
Geez Dee, sorry you crossed paths with me too. Check those facts. I just assumed that when people asked for actual reasons for prefering one person over another that is what they want. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to reply with facts. I will remember in the future to just say"He is a really smart guy" I want "Change" point taken. Let me know what you find, but you will have to check another site beyond "Obama ROcks.Com" I am out of here. Your comments were just so typical I had to respond. And in case you think I am typical "mommy" from Utah....not one person in my office is from Utah or Mormon.
I'm not even sure if I should respond because I am sure I would not be heard anyway. There is so much misunderstanding.
I would suggest that if anyone wants the real, unbiased story to google Georgia and find out for themselves how McCain and Obama each responded to the situation. From what I've read, they both responded too similarly to favor one over the other. Obama's first response was less aggressive and grew more aggressive towards Russia because RUSSIA BECAME MORE AGGRESSIVE. It was too early to charge Russia with anything as they hadn't done anything yet. One (such as Obama) must have known, like McCain, that it was indeed going to happen, but it is more wise, in my opinion to withhold accusations until action truly calls for it. Otherwise we damage relations more than is necessary. In the end, same action taken (by our Government, and called for by both candidates) in response, no matter what the earlier responses were.
After reading several news sources, finding the most unbiased news sources I've concluded that Obama's actions were no different than McCain's, but his speech was more eloquent and aimed at an attempt to not stifle our relations with Russia further, which is what I like about Obama. His tact. There is nothing wrong with his initial statement in my opinion. And Lieberman, the one who started all of the accusations, which only accusations and HIS opinion they are, is clearly using an opportunity to make Obama look bad in order to help garner support for HIS candidate, McCain. Why would he not?
But don't take my word for it all. Read for yourselves. But read more than just Fox news please. There are several reliable news sources out there.
And where did he say Georgia is just as much to blame? He said both sides should show restraint. Good advice, no?
ACORN. 7 employees indicted for voter fraud, in Washington. Other employees of ACORN in states, outside Illinois where Obama was an organizer, have been found and FIRED. I have searched and searched and find nothing substantial other than speculation and accusations, mostly on blogs about this issue. I have yet to read anything from any real news sources, that would give me concern about Obama's affiliation with this group.
Heidi-
I'm beginning to see that to your "facts" you have put your own spin on them fine. You think his foreign policy sucks, I think not. I read voraciously and have never come across anything I have disapproved of. I am open minded and always know that there is much yet to be learned. Until then, I'll continue to read and think about things on my own and not resort to quoting anyone else or biased news sources.
Still I have not been given my answer. Did you notice Heidi that your response to me was all attacks on Obama and no real facts about Palin or McCain? My point exactly. I am really asking what anyone likes about either of these two, about the ISSUES, not "she's a great mother and has done a lot for Alaska" or "he is a military hero". Why don't you spend more time talking UP your candidate and less time ATTACKING mine. I'm not attacking McCain or Palin. I'm really only asking what do you like? Why is she ready to be President? I didn't ask why you hate Obama. I believe he has plenty experience coupled with a brilliant mind, to lead this country. If McCain thinks he's lacking in experience, why would he not choose someone with more experience than Palin? To me, that does not make sense. I'm really asking.
But really, what do these matter. In the end, we vote for those whose views match ours most, and therefore, there is no point to this dialogue, except for learning something new which clearly I am not, so away from here I go. To open hearts and minds.
I agree with Deann's friend whoever you are!! I was never excited about McCain but after hearing Sarah Palin I am now interested and excited! McCain gave a great speech last night and I like him a lot more now too.
I am not just watching one station , butI am an ethnics studies and political science major at the U of U, not quite BYU. Let's face it, I have my issues I think are important, one of one is infanticide. I am going to vote the way I want you will vote the way you want, and we are not going to change each other's mind. Meanwhile, I am feeling guilty for turning my sister's friends blog into a this political war blog.Every time I look at her daughters smiling faces I feel bad. I was up late with my baby last night and was probably more crass than I should have been. We will read what we both want to out of the information we get and I still stand by my facts. All in all, I still believe in a war hero and a strong woman and admire both for their service. I also am voting because of immigration issues, taxes, and a desire not to become a nanny state or socialism. So, it isn't even the person, it is truly their accomplishments for me. Sorry to stir the pot. My sister is gonna kill me.
Heidi-
I'm not trying to change anyone's views. I'm trying to understand them. It's possible to discuss different views without a fight. Obama is NOT a socialist, although yes there are some liberal who are, much fewer in number. I don't believe that is a fair label. I understand the abortion issue. I myself am quite on the fence about it. But Obama is not PRO-Abortion or Infanticide. He has respectable reasons for his stances on these issues, whether or not I agree.
You see, I don't feel like anyone has to agree with me at all. I was really asking questions, not cynically, but curiously. All I was looking for are genuine answers, individually thought out, but the brilliant women we all are.
...by the brilliant women we all are.
Hi Dee,
This is Crystal's husband Dan. I appreciate your viewpoint. Crystal wants to make sure that I tell you that she loves you! I think it's great that we live in a country in which we can have differing viewpoints and the freedom to discuss it openly. Lately it seems that our country is becoming more polarized and I wish it wouldn't.
I want you to know that I am a staunch conservative. I believe in the people of this country can do things better than any government can. I also want you to know that, I too, am a curious person and look into all sides of an argument before I make a decision. I have looked at all sides of this election and here are the reasons why I am voting for McCain. (You asked for what I like about him so I will tell you. I will also give the facts as to why I think Obama will not be great for this country)
I will start with the reason for Jackie's post- Sarah Palin- starting with the least important to most.
1) She is a regular person. She comes from humble roots. She hunts, fishes, kids play hockey, husband is a world champion snow mobile racer...
2) She built her way up the politcal ladder on her own. She built a tough but fair reputation as a PTA mom, city councilman, mayor, Commisioner over the Oil/Gas industry, Governor and the next VP.
3)She has an 82% approval rating in a state that most Governors hover in the 40-50% range.
4)She fights corruption-even in her own party. When she was the Oil/Gas commissioner, she ran the Chairman out because he was corrupt (remember he was GOP like her). Then she got elected to Governor after she beat the corrupt GOP former Gov by promising reform. Then she clamped down on the corruption in the legislature (again against her own party).
5)She cuts waste. She has a surplus in her budget when most states are DEEP in the red. She sold the private jet, cut the domestic staff at the mansion and drives herself to work. She also gave the entire state a MAJOR refund on their taxes because of the surplus. Which leads to...
6) She runs the most efficient state in the country.
7) Because of neigboring on Russia, she top security clearance. What does that mean? She is briefed on all activity with Russia and their allies. She is our first line of defense against a Russian invasion. Because she is commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, she also has military leadership experience. The ANG actually mans the missiles defense system that protects our country against a nuclear missile.
8) She fought and WON against the liberals favorite enemy- BIG OIL
9)She is BIG on states rights. She has fought and sued the Federal Gov when they reached to far into the states rights.
10) She's a pitbull with lipstick!
Now onto McCain (full disclosure, I would have rather seen Romney or Thompson than McCain, but he is a much better option to me than Obama). Also, I am not going to list all of his, because it would take to long. I will just use highlights.
1) He has actually put his life on the line for this country.
2) He has always been proud of his country.
3)He has MAJOR foreign policy experience. In the beginning of the Iraq war, he was skeptical. Once we were in, he said we needed to win it. When people like Harry Reid (and Obama) said the war was lost and Obama wanted to cut and run and embolden the terrorists, McCain backed the surge. It almost cost him the election, BUT HE WAS RIGHT. He was right on Georgia immediately and not after his advisors tell him what to think. He is his own advisor and he WAS RIGHT again.
4) He will not raise taxes. He understands that the top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay 60% of the taxes. The top 40% pay 96%. He knows that raising taxes (and I mean all taxes like payroll and capital gains taxes) will devastate the economy.
5) He understands that the our government was created by our founders to not be the solution to all of societal ills. He understands that if something needs to be done to help people, the individual states should do it. A strong centralized government brings us closer to socialism. Once we go down that path, it is difficult to stop. (I have a question for you Dee...Can you name one prospering socialist/communist country?China doesn't count. They adopted a quasi-capitalism, but the use the masses as slaves to do the work and the elites make the money).
6) He has actually AUTHORED legislation. Not just any legislation. Some of supposedly the biggest reform legislations to end corruption.
7)HE PICKED SARAH PALIN.
Now I am going to list Obama's experience.
1)He kicked a drug habit.
2)He worked for ACORN as a community organizer. You can debate ACORN all that you want, but their are some MAJOR issues with that organization.
3)He's a constitutional professor.
4) He wrote a couple of books.
5)After attending a racist, anti-American church for 20yrs, he disassociates himself with it because the Pastor spews venom and it was caught on tape. (This just goes to his judgement).
6) He kicks off his campaign for State Senator in the house of a domestic terrorist by the name of William Ayers. The William Ayers who bombed the Pentagon over 30yrs ago and on 9/11 stated that they didn't go far enough. The same William Ayers who he served with on 2 different boards.
7) While a state Senator, he votes against a bill that would mandate that if a child was born alive (even after an abortion) that a Dr must treat it and try to save it. He stated just 2 weeks ago that that it was a lie. That the only reason that he did was because it didn't have a neutrality clause in it. His campaign advisors then came out 2 hours later and said that he had it wrong. But regardless of that, how can it not be MURDER if the child is born alive and breathing and no one does anything about it? Which brings me to...
8) He is pro-abortion.
9)Gives a moving speech at the 2004 DNC.
10)Because of the speech, he runs largely unopposed for US Senator and wins.
11) One year after being in office (and after profusely stating that he won't run for Prez.) he forms an exploratory committee to run for Prez. (What experience do you get after 1 yr?)
12) He SPONSORS (not authors) a couple of bills after they were written and already assumed to pass.
13) Votes against the surge. He was wrong.
14) Tells the working people that he is behind them, but then goes to a rich donor party in San Fran and tells them that the working class people in the upcoming PA primary are "bitter and clinging to their guns and religion". some backer of the working class.
15) Says that he is post partisan but has NO HISTORY of ever crossing party lines. He actually has the most liberal voting record of any member of the Senate.
So, my decision was pretty easy to come by. I'll stick with the guy that I know has PROVEN to have the right judgement. That has PROVEN that he is a reformer. I will go with a guy that has PROVEN he can work across party lines for the good of the country.
I will not vote for a guy who has no experience for President. Say what you might about Palin, but I will take hers over Obama everyday. I am just sorry that she is not running for President.
Thank you Dan! This is exactly the conversation I have been hoping for! I love all of your thoughts and will get back to you soon. (I HAVE to clean the house now...my husband has banned me from the computer for the next few hours so together we can clean up!) But I respect your support of Palin because you have given me good reasons why you support her.
I'm sure I'll have responses to your claims about Obama though. :)
Thank you so much!
I think Sarah Palin is qualified to be VP because she is an expert on energy and that is an important issue for our country right now. We need alternative energy sources and she has the expertise based on what she has accomplished for Alaska.
She has been a city councilwoman, mayor and now governor. She has gained experience there. She manages a 6.6 billion dollar budget. She is frugal and hates to see money wasted. She will not waste tax payer money. I love that she drives herself to work everyday.
I loved her speech. I think she is gutsy and confident. I believe that she will work for the people of this country.
I loved John McCain's speech last night. I was never a huge fan but I was impressed by what he had to say last night. I realized that he may be a maverick but maybe he is just what this country needs. We need a president that isn't going to get caught up in which party you belong to but one that will do what's right and makes sense. He has the track record to prove that he will cross party lines to do what he believes is right even if it does tick either party off.
He is a patriot and was a war hero. We need a person that understands war and that has a deep love for this country. He has the character and life experience to support him if he should be elected president.
I am not just watching one station , butI am an ethnics studies and political science major at the U of U, not quite BYU. Let's face it, I have my issues I think are important, one of one is infanticide. I am going to vote the way I want you will vote the way you want, and we are not going to change each other's mind. Meanwhile, I am feeling guilty for turning my sister's friends blog into a this political war blog.Every time I look at her daughters smiling faces I feel bad. I was up late with my baby last night and was probably more crass than I should have been. We will read what we both want to out of the information we get and I still stand by my facts. All in all, I still believe in a war hero and a strong woman and admire both for their service. I also am voting because of immigration issues, taxes, and a desire not to become a nanny state or socialism. So, it isn't even the person, it is truly their accomplishments for me. Sorry to stir the pot. My sister is gonna kill me.
I love her. Thank heavens someone finally has the guts to buck the government beaurocracy. I didnt think we were ready for a woman president, and I didnt think we were ready for a black president. Honestly, I really didnt like any of the candidates. I am not worried about McCains age, frankly I see old men 80's still playing golf, tennis, etc. Isnt that mostly what the president does anyway? For heavens sake look at our prophets. They are in their nineties and still travel the world and run a 13 million member church with ease. Granted, they have God on their side and also they are honest, have integrity, are fair, are kind, compassionate, truly caring about those they have been entrusted to care for. Hummmmm, maybe that is where the problem lies. These people are out for status, ore whatever. Doesnt make much sense to me anymore. I read about George Washington and the revelutionaries in my sons history class. Says they were men of integrity, honesty, honour. Do these men match this? I say no. Obama changes with the wind, or whoever seems to be the best pick at the time. I wonder about his VP nominee. Yes, he definately looks destiguished, and I am sure he has a presidencial resume to match, but does he have virtue, honesty, integrity, honour. These are the things our country was founded on. Have we lost so much touch. I love the passion that she spoke about the issues. I love that I heard about her months ago, and then she was just a small town governor willing to take on the whole federal government over the fuel crisis. I love the way she is willing to stand up to the big dogs, and special interest groups, the ones that seems to be killing the democracy that they say they so much are defending. I love that a woman can stand toe to toe and actually has the coconut snowballs to defend what she really believes and puts her life struggles out there, not in a closet that we may come across in a week or two or three. Yes, her husband will be the primary caregiver. She seems very supportive of her whole family. I dont know what her personal circumstances are or why she has chosen her path. Thank heavens she did, maybe she can put some hope back into America. Maybe, she will be a role model for girls to be virtuous, honest, hard working. How sad that men founded this country on these qualities and it is a woman that has to remind us of what they really are. Thankyou Sarah Palin.
OK DAN. Wow, you gave me a lot of work to do, which is what I LOVE and exactly why these dialogues are important, no matter how uncomfortable it makes us. I want to first make it very clear that I am open minded, and I always will be. If I ever find reason to change my vote I would do it, no problem. I don't believe that I know everything and that I can't change my mind in light of new information. So I want you to know that I did look carefully into all of your statements about Obama and here is what I found. (I will take you at your word about Palin and McCain, only because of time and because if that is all true, it wouldn't change my vote because I don't agree with them on the issues. McCain has been bipartisan on several issues, so there are many things I have agreed with him on, and I do like him. Just too many things I don't agree with.) Furthermore, I don't feel like I have to find fault with either McCain or Palin. It is enough to say I just don't agree with them on the issues. I do feel like I must defend your claims about Obama that are not accurate or that insinuate unfair attacks on his character, which lets face it, do ever truly know the real character or heart of any politician. I'm willing to give them all the benefit of the doubt, and only give attention to clear, proven, facts.
(I'm not mocking you with the numbered paragraphs, just think it's a practical format and good way to organize my responses)
1. He kicked a drug habit. I don't believe he was ever an addict, which this statement would imply. He experimented with drugs. So did Bush. So did, many college students. This to me is no indicator of what kind of man he is now. It is judgmental, in my opinion. He has not made his early drug experimenting a secret, and wrote about it at length in his book.
2. ACORN. Yes, he worked for them. He worked for several organizations. Say what you will about ACORN (I did not find any substantial evidence to conclude the entire organization is corrupt or that their problems, which are bound to occur in many organizations, overshadow the great work this and other organizations like it, does for people in need. There in NO evidence to suggest that Obama ever commited any wrong doings or that he espouses any of the controversial "roots" which the organizations is allegedly grounded in. It has been admitted, somewhere (sorry don't remember the source) that many politicians who work for these organizations do not know the history or radical beliefs some held when they were started. There are many degrees of liberalism within the Democratic Party and within these organizations. To conclude that all people affiliated with either are socialists and radical activists is just not true or fair. Yes, many of these organizations have leaders that are activists, they are extreme left, some of them. They have been accused of some shady things. But they have done great work overall, for communities all over the country. There is nothing to criticize Obama for working for them (he actually brought messages of peaceful ways of demonstrating to them) or his work organizing. He never said it qualified him for President. He has written that it helped to shape who he is, and his passion for serving "the people". The mockery of his work in this is just uncalled for, in my opinion. So yes, he worked for a liberal organization. That should not be surprising. He is liberal.
3. He's a constitutional professor. Are you saying that's a bad thing? I don't really get that.
4. He wrote a couple of books. Yes, and they were great. He is so very smart, it's clear. Brilliant. He was president of Harvard Law Review! That's insane, unheard or, geniusness to have obtained that position. Especially because of where he comes from. He was raised in a lower middle class, blue collar home. Intellegence, while it's not the only quality that is important, should be acknowledged as important nonetheless.
5. His church. So much speculation and judgment. Nodody knows Barack's relationship with Pastor Wright, or Wright's heart. I will withhold judgment about a person's religious choices. He did leave the church after all of the scrutiny. So what? Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe it was going to cost him the presidency. He didn't change religions, he changed churches. I am not offended by Pastor Wright's words. I don't agree, but I don't care if he says them. I just don't. Yes, this talk comes out in a great many of black churches across the country. I will not judge or criticize after the history of what has happened to them in this country. If pain and bitterness make them say things that are wrong, well, I will live and let live. I could go on forever. I think I was black in a past life. Ha ha! I just feel them, and hear them. It will get better. This is an older generation. They are stuck on the past. Did you see or read Obama's speech about race? About his feelings for Pastor Wright? But I don't blame Obama for the fallout. Wright spoke out against him and betrayed him, seriously putting his career in jeapardy. He sadly did what he felt he needed to do. So, what does this issue even have to do with Obama and his presidential abilities?
6. William Ayers. Never knew who this man was. So interesting! So, yes he was part of this group called the Weathermen in the 70's. Young, foolish, radicals. Planted a bomb, allegedly. Charges were dropped. Yes, a police officer died as a result. Horrible! It's never been proven that Ayers himself planted the bomb or what really his role was. He just might have. Concerning that he's a Harvard professor now. He's extreme liberal (does not represent mainsream liberals one bit). Shady man, for sure. Obama moved into his neighborhood. Ayers and his wife host a party for Obama to raise money for him and introduce him to the neighborhood. Why should we assume Obama knew this man was an alleged murderer? A neighbor offers to host this party for him and help him raise money. Why would he not go? They happen to both work for the same non-profit agency. They probably share some views.
They are acquaintances, or were. That does not mean Obama agrees with him, or embraces his radical views. Again, there is no evidence that Obama has ever had a history of radical or violent behavior. This issue has been soooo blown out of proportion. Obama is NOT a terrorist! Just because he has worked along side him doesn't mean he condones any of his past behavior or even knows about it. Just think how many work along side Ayers at Harvard. Do you think all of them are suspects of domestic terrorism?
7. Partial Birth Abortion. The very strongest thing (maybe the only thing) I disagree with Obama about. I am quite on the fence about it in general. I don't have an answer. It's so complicated. But partial birth abortions!?! I can't imagine how any doctor can do it, or why a woman would choose to do this. I would like to find out. Until then, I will HOPE that there is a serious, seriously good reason because I can't believe doctors and women are capable of being so evil. Maybe they are. But, Obama is not PRO-abortion. Nobody is. Nobody likes it. Obama doesn't want women to resort to it. This is not about being a baby killer. This is about a man, a politician who represents a party who embraces women's right and freedom of choice. I don't agree, but I get it. Now specifically partial birth abortion ban and his reason for voting this way. No, he does not enjoy the idea of a baby being murdered. He has reasons for voting the way he did. I must quote his exact words (again, you don't have to agree, but it is helpful to see that he feels like there was reason to oppose it)
In his words:
On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that.
His response in an interview:
Obama has spoken at length about his vote as an Illinois state senator against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which he says has been widely distorted. The bill would have required doctors to perform life-saving treatment to fetuses born as a result of an induced abortion, but Obama says those babies were already protected under Illinois law. "There was already a law in place in Illinois that said that you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances," Obama told Relevant, a Christian magazine, earlier this summer. "This bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn't think it was going to pass constitutional muster."
And this backs up what he said:
-the www.factcheck.org link at http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html says that, "It is worth noting that Illinois law already provided that physicians must protect the life of a fetus when there is "a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support."
And one more quote by Obama himself:
Ultimately, women are in the best position to make a decision at the end of the day about these issues. With significant constraints. For example, I think we can legitimately say — the state can legitimately say — that we are prohibiting late-term abortions as long as there's an exception for the mother's health. Those provisions that I voted against typically didn't have those exceptions, which raises profound questions where you might have a mother at great risk. Those are issues that I don't think the government can unilaterally make a decision about. I think they need to be made in consultation with doctors, they have to be prayed upon, or people have to be consulting their conscience on it. I think we have to keep that decision-making with the person themselves.
So again, I don't agree. I think he may be wrong in his stance on abortion in general. But I understand it, and I don't think he's evil. I think he's representing women and would like to have the freedom to make these choices. Doctors should not do it. Women should not choose to do it. But for now, their choice it shall be.
8. So not pro-abortion. Pro-choice. It's just not true that he's pro-abortion. Do you think seriously that anyone wants to see babies killed?
9. Yes, moving speech in 2004. He has great thoughts and ideas that move people. Why should that be diminished or scorned?
10. Huge assumption that he won based on his one speech. But surely it did help. He also made a reputation for himself as a person who listens to others and works well with Republicans. They won't admit it now, being close to election time, but many Republicans have been quoted as viewing Obama in this positive way.
11. Yeah, soooo cheesy when politicians say they are not going to run, and then they do. They ALL do it. I saw McCain on the view saying he wasn't even thinking it. They all do this. It's actually very funny. So lame.
12. Obama's legislation. More than Hillary's done in 6 years! He did more in ONE year than she did in 6!
Here's a list that is backed up by library of congress. I checked the link. He has authored and sponsored these (not even a full list):
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov). Now, I would post those most significant bills authored and passed into law of Obama's, **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparenc y Act of 2006, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more. In all since he entered the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no legislative record.
Sure none of them as "sweeping" as McCain's. McCain has been doing it for over 20 years right?! Which yes, illustrates your point about Obama's limited experience in comparison to McCain's. That is true. I'm sure if Obama had over 20 years on he would have much more, but even in his short time in the Senate, these accomplisments should be acknowledged.
13. The surge. Whether or not he was wrong is your opinion. I agree it has helped in the short-term. Will it help us to "win" this thing overall? Perhaps he was wrong. Politicians are wrong sometimes. But I'm not convinced of the importance of this surge. I would like this war to have not started in the first place! Obama stood up against it, as did McCain I believe. And I'm not sure the surge matters because this war may not be winnable. I think we need to get the heck out, slowly and carefully of course.
14. That quote about people clinging to their religion. They DO do that. He wasn't saying that is wrong. He said that because he understands these people, that they do this and NOT cling to politicians or the government. He was talking about people being cynical and not trusting their leaders anymore. That's what he meant. This really does not bother me one bit.
15. Yes, he's among the most liberal, which is why I love him. :) But I totally get that it's why you'd never vote for him. HE himself has never said that he crosses party lines. That is what all the pundits say and it's not really true. What they should say is that he works well across party lines. He communicates and discusses things well. That's all he's said about himself.
It's not true that Obama has NO experience. It is true that he is young and less experienced that McCain.
You ask about socialist/communist countries. Why? Do you suppose I have socialist views? Not one bit. I know many liberals and they are NOT socialist and they DO believe in Capitalism and the greatness of our goverment, as do I. There are many degrees, like I said. But the Kennedy's, Maria Shriver, the Clintons, soooo not Socialist. This is unfair and I'm tired of hearing those accusations. I don't understand where they come from. Perhaps you could enlighten me? I believe capitalism, in spite of it's weaknesses, is the best goverment in history. But I do think that some power must be given to government to protect it's people, because if not, people are not protected and suffer more than need be. And the reason it's okay for our government, yes even central government to do it? WE are the Government. This is a democracy, or suppose to be. We should see problems and not expect them to fix themselves. So with that...God Bless America!
And lets stick to facts instead of all of these constant accusations and attacks on character. We are ALL patriotic (well always some crazy exceptions) and we ALL love this country, and we ALL want peace, love, and happiness!
P.s. I don't have time to proof read so there may be lots of errors!
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Dan, I love you....your wife is lucky. I am not a very "eloquent" speaker and get a little riled up. I am known in my family for having an anger problem and you summed up every thought I had but couldn't get out. Thank you!!!! By the way, the tax thing... my boss says if Obama gets elected, he will have to cut back one of our staff because he just cannot afford the payroll taxes. I don't think he is the only employer. A lot of business owners are waiting to see what happens here and more people will lose their jobs.
Wow Jackie, way to bring debate to the blogging world!
I love the saying, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will die defending your right to say it!"
Now, I am very much aware that my opinion is of no worth really to anyone else but myself, but I really couldn’t resist the desire to respond to Deann….I loved your honest question as to what qualifies Sarah Palin!
I thought about that as I read everyone’s response. Then I also thought about the great presidents of the USA and what qualified each of them. I realized that my most favorite president of all time, Lincoln, really wasn’t “that” qualified to be president (if we were looking back on experience) and that many of the “greats” weren’t “qualified” by our current standards either. They were just ordinary men who were inspired to do what was right against the odds and opinions of others……I then found myself wondering about Palin…..like everyone else.....and after learning a bit about what she did in Alaska….wow, she really cleaned that place up…..I think she should run for president by herself!...if only she could walk in and fix the US like she did Alaska (at least from what I have learned about her so far---and that isn’t as much as I would like to know yet).
As for president, to be honest, right now I really would like to write in "NONE OF THE ABOVE" when it comes to voting this election! No offense to anyone's opinion or views on this blog---I have not been convinced that either candidate will be an AMAZING president! I am absolutely horrified with what I have learned in regards to Obama's views on energy, but my father who has worked in the oil industry for over 30 years and is currently working hand in hand with the government on policies right now…says I can’t truly believe the words of ANY politician in regards to energy---they are all politically motivated to get a vote and definitely not based on research….but I still hold my personal opinion that…..if Obama's views don't change somewhat and he was put into the presidency I will be scared to death! I do give him the credit of being a very eloquent speaker….although he comes from “Chicago politics” that are known for their corruption and “wind.”
I too, however, agree with what Deann said about McCain. He does, at times, come across more aggressive than I would like---and I am not sure we need that type of personality right now…..not with how our world is today!
So, as of right now, I am not completely sure how I am going to vote, but I do agree with what Jackie wrote about Palin. I have to say McCain was very smart in his choice of V.P......Palin not only is a "down to earth" person, in touch with views of many everyday individuals, she also took Alaska and really changed it around. If I could be convinced that she could really influence McCain the way she did in Alaska.....I would actually be excited to vote this Nov! Although…..I don’t know how her views will affect McCain….so my opinion is still left in the air!
I agree Deann, Google is a great resource in finding out info. Hopefully I can read this speech I missed that brought on all of this discussion---it sounds like a good one! Loved reading everyone’s opinion….thanks for sharing….it has opened my eyes and helped feed my curiosity on how I should vote!
Happy voting everyone!
So glad I am an American!!!
Hey Dee,
I actually don't want to turn Jackie's blog into to a total political debate, but obviously I see things a little different than your response, so I will hopefully be brief (if that's possible for me). But again, the wonderful thing about this country is the freedom to have differing political beliefs without harm to us.
1)This was a little satirical on my part. I was saying that was part of his experience. As for being addicted, that I don't know. His book does state that his drug use was much more than recreational. Does that disqualify him? No. Does that with other things show a pattern of judgement? Possibly.
2)I don't find your argument on this one very persuasive. For him not to look into the group that employs him, again goes to his judgement again. ACORN (other than their fraudulent activities in specific cities) is well know as a totality of being very anti-capitalism with VERY HEAVY socialist/very liberal leanings. The founder Wade Rathke is an extreme left winger.
As for your comments about these organizations doing some good things. Yes, some of them do. Not ACORN. ACORN, amongst other liberal entities, actually helps the success of those they espouse to help. They keep them down by taking away their responsibities of their actions. They keep them down because these organizations prove to them that there will always be a handout. So why work hard? Now don't get me wrong. The government needs to provide a safety net for people. But there needs to be a limitation. And it should not be provided by the federal government. The more the federal government provides (as opposed to state doing it) the closer to socialism we get. The founders of this land were pretty specific in this. The federal government is not the nanny. Now, with that said, you might be able to persuade me that states should do this, but that would be a long discussion as well.
3) Nope, nothing wrong with. I was just listing his experience.
4)Actually, as autobiographies go, I found them to be quite pompous. The way he speaks and the way he describes things, it seems to me to be an embellishment or overdramatization of his life. It seemed like story telling and not recalling memories. Actually, when he lived in Hawaii, his was middle to close to upper middle class life. I will give you that he is a very smart man, though. That is not in doubt.
5)I did not question his religion or his faith. I questioned his judgement. Would you attend anything, much less a church, for 20yrs that spewed that kind venom? I could suppose things about why he stayed, but that's for another time.
I will say this...I am very offended by his words. They are disgusting. He has the freedom to say them, but you have to wonder about a Presidential candidate and what he feels about this country for him to have stayed there for 20 years. Please look into Black Separtism to see it for what it is. It is racism at it's worst.
On a side note on this...slavery was a horrible thing. Racism and separate bathrooms, made to ride on the back of the bus was a horrible thing. But guess what, Republicans ended them. Abe Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation, and Republicans passed desegregation laws. MLK Jr was a Republican. It was the Democrats, specifically the Southern Dems that were responsible for the perpetuation of it. Just keep that in mind. But those things happened in the past. We now live in a country where anyone has the ability to succeed and be free of persecution. For them to be stuck in the past will actually keep them from succeeding. It's like because I am LDS that I will never like anyone whoever persectued people of my faith. By being bitter about it, I will never move forward. Is their still predjudice? Of course. It was on full display when the Evangelicals came out against Romney just because he's LDS. Am I bitter? Nope. I moved on.
6) On this one, again I disagree. William Ayers is VERY well known. He was a hero in the liberal movement. He bombed the Pentagon, there is no doubt. Was he present when the police office died? No. Did he state on 9/11/2001 that they didn't go far enough? Yep. But for you to say that he is just a liberal is so far off base. He is a terroist, plain and simple. For you to claim that it was a simple fundraiser at this house is a big understatement. The party at that house was his campaign kickoff. This was the party where he was introduced. Do you not believe that Obama would have known something about him to have this major event in his residence? If you think he didn't, what does that say about his judgement by not knowing the guy who holds this big time thing for him? Any way you look at this one, again you have to question his judgement. It also shows you where his politics are.
BTW- I do not believe that Obama is a terrorist, nor do I believe he is a Muslim. These are disgusting smears and have no place in debate.
7&8) Ok, on these, we may never see eye to eye. To me, abortion is not about choice, it's about murder. Abortion is plain and simple murder of an unborn. For it to be wrapped up in a slogan of a "womans right to choose" is wrong. Please go look at a fetal growth chart and tell me when you feel that that is not a child growing in their. Please tell me that when you saw the ultrasound of your childrens heartbeat in-utero that you could possibly have thought for one minute that you could abort them. Abortion is about one thing...lack of personal responsibilty. The thing that caused that child is that parents fault. If they don't have the ability to raise that child, have it to term and place it for adoption.
I have a great book for you to read. It is called "The Marketing of Evil" by David Kupelian. If you disagree with his politics, fine. But at least read the section on abortion. It will change your mind on abortion. If you don't want to read that, then google Jane Roe-Roe vs Wade- (Norma McCorvey). She is actually adamently pro-life now. Or you can check out this article on her
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/roe.wade/stories/roe.profile/
But specifically on BAIPA in Illinois. One of your statements shows that there was a loophole in the law there. "a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival". So here's the thing. If that baby is born alive and breathing, you don't think that the Dr's should do everything in their power to save it even though it may or may not have a reasonable likelihood or sustained survival? With today's technology, likelihood of sustained survival is amazing. What that new law was trying to do was close the loophole and say that every baby born alive and breathing needed to receive medical treatment. There was also a neutrality clause it in it that affirmed the right to have an abortion. Obama still voted against it. His campaign actually said that he had it incorrect when he said that there was no provision like that in the bill he voted against. How can you say that he isn't pro-abortion?
9) Just more satire.
10) Not really a huge assumption. He won based on that high profile sppech and basically running against an extremist like Alan Keyes. Had he run against Rep Ryan and had Rep Ryan had no scandalous divorce disclosures, Ryan would have had a good chance to win.
11)Actually, it was very well known that McCain was going to run. The GOP very much likes the "next guy in line". McCain was it and everyone knew it. Obama flatly denied it after winning the election. Not that big of deal, but these things starts to add up.
12)Actually go look whether Obama authored these or sponsored them. Just because the legislation holds their names, doesn't mean they authored them. The Lugar bill, Obama sponsored. Same with the Coburn. The only one I believe he had a hand in writing was the ethics bill. Commendable, but not persuasive against the proven reforms McCain has written himself.
13) It is not my opinion, it's the facts. The war is almost over. We just handed the Anbar province (once the most deadly areas in Iraq) back to the Iraqis. We are working out the hand off of Baghdad back as well. Basra was 5 months ago. The Kurdish territories almost immediatley after the surge began. We have won and Obama even said on O'Reilly on Thursday that the surge "has been more successful than anyone could ever imagine". Had we pulled out prior to the surge, the war was lost. It would have been devastating had we pulled out.
I also had started my comments about McCain stating that he also wasn't convinced about Iraq. But once were in, the debate about going in should end. We cannot leave until the war had been won. It has now been won and now we can brings the troops home. Which is exactly what Pres Bush is doing as we speak.
14) That is not how he meant it. There is actual audio of this out on the net. He was in San Fran at a fund raiser, speaking to the liberal elites about why he wasn't making traction in rural PA. He was saying that he wasn't winning in these areas because people there are bitter. And because they are bitter, they cling to their guns and religion. I am sorry if you don't find this offensive, but I find it highly offensive. It again goes the type of person he is. It is offensive because it says " I'm better than you because..."
15) Actually, yes he said he was "post partisan" but he votes along party lines 100%. That is nowhere near post partisan.
You asked if I feel that you are socialist. I have no idea. If you feel that the only way to solve things is thru the expansion of the Federal Government, then you are at least on the path of going that way. Remember, I think the founders got it right. I don't want to mess with anything they did about the role the federal goverment plays in solving societal ills. Again, we could get into a debate about the state's role in helping and defending it's citizens, but you could never sway me about the Federal Gov. Any step in increasing it's role, is one step closer to socialism. I will not have that.
But I, like you, love this country. I will never question someones patriotism because they have different views than me. I will never condescend to think my my views are more important or better than yours. I will never accuse them of being uneducated on things if they disagree with me. I may have a discussion with them (like we are having now) to discuss it. But, they are simply my views. I would hope likewise. And I hope you realize that I am not trying to be provocative. We are just having a discussion on Obama and McCain.
Hey Dan,
So this is what I'm learning from all of this. All the "facts" out there are interpreted and written, rewritten so many different ways. If you want to find evidence to conclude that Obama is shady, immoral, or of unfit character to be a President it will be out there. For every one of the concerns you brought up, there is just as much evidence to support them, as there is to contradict it. What we choose to believe is personal and biased towards our political philosophies. I could go on giving my different opinion about each of these topics, yet again, and on and on we could go, forever. That's why I think it's better to stick to trying to find common ground on the issues the two candidates support.
I wasn't trying to be persuasive. My only wish is that I could make liberals and Obama less demonized for people (mission failed). I understand that there are things we will never, ever agree on. I am just very frustrated with people (not you) attacking a person's character, based on subjective information. Why can't we just say, I don't agree with his policies and end there? I don't mean you personally, I know you were just pointing out your view of his experience and I respect them. I just don't believe we can judge a politician's true character, intentions, agendas. We can only speculate. Which you are doing I guess. You believe these issues are cause for alarm. I do not. I don't understand why people can't discuss his health care policy or economics plan. I feel like everyone is talking about Reverend Wright or whether or not he put his hand over his heart, or other things I don't see as more significant than what he plans to do as President. I don't wish to go back and forth about the man's character. I know you weren't attacking his religion. I just think people don't understand these black churches. I feel badly for them, for their pain and the experiences they had to live through. It's why I'm not offended. I feel like I just understand why, but it will get better and they will never be the kind of threat to us that the KKK was to them. By the way, I recently read that Republicans were really the Democrats from Abe's day up until Martin Luther King Jr. and shortly after. The parties have flipped flopped, with the religious right joining forces with the Republicans (after Carter I believe). Lincoln did several things that were central government
oriented. The founding fathers had several intense arguments on the role federal gov't should have. It will never change, we are still arguing, and that's good. Because I believe these two parties balance each other out and we are better off because of what each brings to the table. I believe in compromise. And I do not think the government is the only solution, not one bit. I do not wish to see liberals demonized in this country though. This is my one complaint. Yes, there are some extremists but it is unfair to judge the mainstream based on these few.
Until there is solid evidence for me to believe that Obama is racist, or extreme liberal (meaning socialist), or anti-capitalism, or anti-american (not saying you believe these things, just lots of people I know in my family do) I don't feel like I can find reason to think these things, based on what church he went to or who he has been affiliated with. I think that if there were serious red flags, the truth would leak out. He has had a lot of support and respect from leaders of both parties. He made his way up, through the primaries without being accused or caught doing anything that would prove him any of the above things I mentioned. Hillary surely would have brought that to the table. But just because I don't see problems with his church, his pastor, his acquaintance who yes was an activist and possible murderer which I did say (and many people work with this person -at Harvard and several organizations), or his affiliation with ACORN. Yes, it may have been started by people who believe in socialism. That does not mean that Obama holds these views.
I feel like there is so much Socialism-paranoia. I don't believe Obama's health care plan is a slippery slope down the road to Socialism and I know I am not a socialist and I'm not "on my way there". Our government works for us, we all vote on the issues (and elect leaders to the Senate and Congress who we should really pay attention to, just as you do) and I don't believe we are anywhere close to being headed towards socialism because there are those who support social programs and such.
All that being said, I understand that these issues give you reason not to vote Obama and can respect that.
Oh and thank you, thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate your time and your thoughts. And don't worry, Jackie LOVES all this commentary on her blog! :)
Winnie-
I loved your comments. Thank you so much for your input. What you said about energy, interesting!
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